A tale of 2 sickbeds: Health care in the U.K. and U.S.

Canada's not a socialist country ...

Society today is the evolution of human congregation together thousands of years ago for mutual protection and benefit. Today it is no different than 10,000 years ago. Government is formed by society, charged with ensuring society movers forward. Health care, education and basic transportation infrastructure are the basis to form a forward thinking, benevolent society.

Today, cost for medical care is extraordinary for the ordinary person. I am a Canadian & live in Toronto. I have a disabled son who has had 2 heart surgeries and many other procedures. I received, in error, a copy of the bill for the 1st surgery. The cost was $30,000 (in 1991). As well, he has epilepsy which requires many different drugs to control. Without our 'socialist' universal health care, My family would be broke - my wife would not have been able to return to university, completing a degree, paying for it herself, and now gainfully employed, paying taxes and making a difference (therapist in a geriatric home) - my daughter would not be able to afford college because we would be broke & unable to afford it.

I personally have had broken arm, broken leg, stitches etc over the years. I have never had to pay anything. Sure, I have had to wait for service, at most 2 hours on one occassion. But I was always taken care of.
Taxes may be a little higher here, but not extraordinarily so, unlike how the US media makes it out. Certainly much lower than if I had to pay health insurance premiums + taxes etc.
We have a great standard of living, work hard and want for nothing.
I hope you & your government sees the light.

Actually, with all the government bailouts American is now a socialist economy. I worked for 17 years in a county hospital in a major city here in the US and I saw all the experiences the author reported she had in London happen to people right here in the US. The author was comparing a county hospital in London to private care here in the US and that is not a fair comparison.

Additionally, I have personally asked people from the UK as well as other European countries what they think of their socialized healthcare and all stated they have to wait for primary care appointments but they are otherwise very satisfied. Americans also have to wait for primary care appointments (I just waited 1.5 months.) but we don't have to fear financial ruin if we get sick.

Everthing described in this article in reference to the U.K happened me on long Island N.Y. Iwas in an emergency room for 36 hours because there was no bed. I had a serious condition at the time that prevented me from talking very well . I was in excruciating pain in my throat and left that way for 12 hours because they said I never told them. I thought the fact I was in an emergency room with tears in my eyes would have given that away. When I was eventually moved to a room it was with 2 other people , 1 of which cried and whimpered inpain for the next five days. I felt I was in a mash unit. My point is , don't fool yourselves into thinking the insuance companies or hospitals care more about you than your Government. We are in control of our Government . We can make a healthcare system for everyone that treats people and not insurance policies. Remember our police force is socialized , our fire department is socialized , our schools are socialized , our military is socialized our post office. I could go on and on. Don't let politicians or anyone else for that matter tell you socialized healthcare is bad. 99% of them have never lived it. I have . This is all about money . politicians don't work for us anymore. They work for big business. Our healthcare system is not even in the top 10 in the world. That is shameful for this country. The people of this country need to get a grip and stop being scared of things because a handfull of politicians tell them to be.
We just bailed out banks to the tune of 700 billion. That would cover every man , woman and child in this country medically for 10 years.

You are correct, Canada is not a socialist country and yet they have socialized medicine. However, a huge factor in their "success" is they live next door to the U.S. who's doctors provide the majority of their "optional" surgeries for them. When a Canadian can not receive "optional" health care through their socialized medicine they cross our border and get their needed care here so they have the best of both worlds. If the U.S. changes to a socialized healthcare system we need to realize that same option of simply crossing a border for better care will not be available to us!

We are a socialist country now! Look at the huge government bailout of companies that are failing due to government deregulation (and corporate greed). If THAT isn't socialism, I don't know what is.

Why can our "socialist" actions help the poor and the little people for once instead of the corporate world?

And I can guarantee you that the poor in this country would LOVE a space on an uncomfortable gurney -- it's better than suffering silently and dying of no care at all.

I've been living in Canada for the past two and half years, but originally hail from the States. My health insurance in Canada is from my school, so I never have to wait for primary care longer than a couple of days, but I am the exception. Although Canadians don't have to pay for emergency room visits or primary care visits, they do have to pay for specialists. They also have to pay for vision and dental on their own. Many jobs here also have optional benefits packages because the health care system doesn't cover as many aspects of the field as many Americans would believe.

I recently was in an emergency room in London with horrible stomach pains and was waiting for 5 hours without seeing anyone, so I just left and toughed out the pain. I have heard similar horror stories from friends, one of which was left waiting for 12 hours in a St. Catharines, Ontario ER. In London, Ontario, there are always reports of shortages of doctors and there not being enough rooms in hospitals for people to have babies, etc. There are always complaints about the health care system on the news, etc, but it has yet to be seen how the Canadians plan to change their system for the better.

I am not saying that the health care system is any better in the US though. People wait ungodly amounts of time in overcrowded city hospitals and can't afford the cost of their care. So what's the balance? The point is that even countries that have socialized medicine such as Canada or the UK have problems with their systems; yet so does the US. There needs to be a balance of power between private and public sectors that would compliment each other to the benefit of both the public and their finances. I think the public needs to be more concerned with the issue of health care reform both in the US and Canada as both elections continue to loom in the horizon.

The hospital stay in England sounds like a nightmare. Unfortunately the memories in New York, while more pleasant, does not reflect your post hospitalization, in which the hospital bill would have forced
you into bankruptcy. The hospital would not give "on going" treatment if needed. Many Americans are going blind, losing limbs and their lives, because while emergency treatment will be provided, at a later cost of everything you own, ongoing conditions will be left untreated without insurance. There is no question the English medical system seems to need a caring hand, and overhaul, but the U.S. ranks 37th in world health care because the uninsured weigh down the high level of care the insured have. I recently joined the ranks of the uninsured when my wife lost her job. A Cobra plan was offered for a mere $1100 per month, for myself, wife and 10 year old. I can't afford it, and can only pray for good health, and no accidents. I think the British system sounds pretty good, about now!

I was born in Buffalo and spent 20+years in the UK and had 2 children born there and have 3 british Grandchildsren. When i came back to the USA the thing that hit me the most was that someone is conning the American public with this nonsensense about Nationalized health. In the UK it is adouble track system. You can get private insurance. The impact of the Natinal Health system there is that the premiums are very low. In the 20 years there i have nothing but praise and admiration for the delivery of health care. The HMO's are conning ypou folks. The cost of insurance? My NHI contributions in the UK were dwarfed by the Insurance premiums in the USA. You have to pay for health careand you can pay it in taxes or premiums. The difference in delivery? You need a referral in the USA. Like when I had my first problem with an infected ear. The referral from the MD was denied because I was told I did not have an infection. I paid for the treatment myself. They told me to sue them. My experience in the UK. As an example . I had a bad attack of psoriasis in the UK. I had to be hospitalized. Waiting time 2 DAYS to get in into St. Barts Hospital in London EC2. Stayed 2 weeks. Most memorable. My youngest was born brain damaged. Childs health care top notch. They caught it at 6 months. For one year he was treated at the Great Ormond Street Hospital for Sick Children. I was there for the tests and saw the results. They tried to stimulate the side of the brain that was not damaged. For one year, every day a team of doctors , therapists ,nurses worked on him. He was not the only one there. Well they did it. Finished school, is smart, athletic ,has his own business. Instead of being a paraplegic, like the prognosis predicted if no intervention, he had some special learning issues that he had to deal with. But that would be impossible for me to have handled financially in the USA system. So my mission back here in the USA is to spread the word based on experience not of one episode in a hospital by a reporter but 2 decades of real life experiences over there and over here. Neither is a panacea but we are being taken for a ride over here. Health care is not a commodity like a TV set that you go shopping for. When you are sick you are sick. And if you do not have health care you don't even have a chance to shop.

You must be either financially well to-do, or have insurance through your job/your husband/your family, or the government (Medicaid/Medicare). Or maybe neither you nor anybody in your immediate family were ever seriously ill or needed surgery and you were left with thousands of dollars in co-pays, deductibles, and lost income.

My husband had testicular cancer last year. Fortunately, he has insurance, so we ended up only $5,000 in debt. Unfortunately, they just increased his BlueCross premiums, so he had to up his deductible in order to still be able to pay for it. But that means his follow-up CT scans and bloodwork are now out-of-pocket.

He already told me he's not going to get anymore CT scans because if the cancer comes back, it'll most likely be terminal anyway (or so his doctor told him) and there is no sense in ruining us financially. He'd rather have pain management and die than go through surgery and chemo again for nothing. :(

If you want to complain about universal health care being "socialist" and how the goverment should not take care of us etc etc .. .Did you forget about a "socialist" police force, "socialist" fire department, universal and free "socialist" public school.. I think you should rethink the thought of health care being "socialist". Everyone from young to old deserves health care and not become BANKRUPT because of it ... This article was a bit one sided (pro paid healthcare) .. I have been in a number of emergency rooms here (the US) and I have NEVER been seen under at least 5-6 hours and not ONE nurse came and checked on me .. I was throwing up and in constant pain in the lobby with about 30 other people and NO ONE got any attention.. Most of the nurses were discussing last nights date or dinner plans .. I have never been to the UK but I bet they have issues also, but NO ONE goes with out care for lack of money though...I had a chance to pay for health insurance for me and my wife and two kids ... Guess how much that cost? 279 dollars a WEEK and that was basic ... I still had to pay tons of money of my co pay for scripts ....

You should look at both sides of this issue.. Universal health care is where its at ...

For what it's worth, I lived recently in the UK and received routine and emergency care from the Natl Health Service. I have nothing but good things to report as a patient myself or for the care that my family received (including braces for a son). Although the Brits love to complain about the NHS they would appreciate it more if they were exposed to the US system. The beauty of the NHS (and other single payer systems run throughout most of Western Europe as well as Japan) is that there is almost no expense to claim for or protest payments. Something like 35 percent of all expenditures in the US are just for the payment process-- other countries virtually eliminate this expense and as a result they can offer cheaper access to everyone. They also ration care, but let me explain: My son's teeth needed braces but it wasn't urgent, so he was put on a list for 6 months. After the orthodontist had capacity, my son was seen promptly and received excellent care (and his smile looks like a million bucks). Had I not wanted to wait, I could have paid out of my own pocket or used private medical insurance to pay for braces (although doctors are required to take NHS patients, they can also take private patients). Finally I think the Brits look at basic health care as a right, not a privilege. For some reason we seem not to view heath care in the same way, but perhaps Americans can be swayed by an economic argument: the expensive and employer-subsidized system we have is increasingly causing manufacturing to leave the country and reduce our standard of living.

I was born and raised in England. My mother spent a lot of time in the hospitals over there. Amongst other things she was diabetic. On one visit I had to ask the nurse 5 times for something for her to eat and each time expressed my concern of her going into a diabetic coma. Eventually they brought her the most disgusting soggy sandwich. When I told my doctor on a later visit his only comment was that it was the National Health and the nurses and workers were poorly paid.

Her last visit to the hospital was her last. She had fell off the guerney. We got a call underplaying the incident saying there had been a little accident and she may look a little bruised. Her face was totally black and blue on one side. She didn't make it through the night. After telling these horror tales there were many times she had to make an emergency trip and she had excellent care.

And might I ask who pay's for your healthcare?

"We are not a socialist country".

Gee, what gave that away? The bailout of Wall St? nationalization of banks and insurance countries? Grow up.

"And who pays for your health care"?

The same people that pay for crappy mortgages, greed and fraud on Wall St, war of "Libbertee" in Iraq, and so on. You.

France ranks number one with its health care system ! It has the best healthcare system in the world and it works, so why talk about the UK health care system?????

For your info, the us ranks 37th !

In defense of T Braswell, you are right and when the rest of these posts begin to THINK, they will realize that it is NOT the responsibility of everyone else to pay YOUR bills. The fact of the matter is that the REAL reason health care in the US is so high is BECAUSE of deadbeat socialist welfare mooches who don't make a single effort to pay their bills!!!!!!! The FACTS are that about 80% of the people make NO effort to even make payments towards their health care bills. That leaves the rest of us and our insurance carriers picking up the tab!!! That's not right or fair because it's really those of us paying that are the only ones doing without healthcare because we cannot afford it because we are carrying everyone else through our higher taxes and insurance costs. ONLY when we start making people responsible for themselves is this problems going to change. It's a proven fact that if everyone made an effort, even if it's only $10-25 a month, it would help the problem considerably. Oh, but I forgot, these are the same people who usually don't take care of themselves by becoming obese, drinking, and smoking. This is not a stereo type, it's a fact. Every day, these people whine that they need someone to "help'" them but they are too lazy to help themselves. Now, to make point very clear. This in no way refers to those who have catastrophic problems such as children who need heart transplants and other non-preventable problems. If we didn't have sooooo many mooches, we could actually better help these people who are genuinely in need. But now, we have people who use the ER for the sniffles so that they can walk away without paying the bill which they couldn't do if they went to a primary care physician. This hurts those in need of emergency care. And BEFORE you liberals start blasting me, let me inform you that I have researched my facts AND I have also dealt with these issues on a personal level. My father, you know one of those hard working tax paying citizens who lost his insurance when he lost his job a few years ago when oil was bad, well, he's had three major surgeries in the past three years. This was WITHOUT insurance. One was over $100,000 alone for a cancer surgery. Still, he made arrangements to pay out his debt!!!!! I know that personal responsibility is a foreign idea to most liberals but it's the only thing that works! Lastly, I have actually talked with a couple of nurses that I am acquainted with who are from the UK and they say we do NOT want socialized medicine here. One said that as bad as it seems now, the US system will only get worse if we turn to socialized medicine. That's coming from people who have worked in BOTH systems and finds ours better. I know that there are problems with care and that comes largely from the caliber of employee that our medical institutes can hire. As Americans, we have become a lazy bunch of people who expect to be paid for just showing up. There is no pride in doing a good job and it shows in how many nurses and aides treat people. I know that there are some really good nurses out there but the majority are people who decided to go to tech school cause it would be paid for and then they could get a job with benefits. It has nothing to do with a desire to help people. Health care is a HARD industry to work in and most Americans don't have the fortitude to stick with it and do a good job. I also know this because my mom and my mother in law are nurses, and I have seen this problem first hand. When whining Liberals quit expecting everyone else to pay for people who do NOT want to take care of themselves, then we will all be better off. Please realize that many low income people are that way by CHOICE. The chose not to work or be responsible and you cannot legislate them into being equal to those of us working for what we have. I want to be able to help those really in need such as the elderly, our vets, and children who didn't create their own problems. Around here, most of the chronic patients are extremely overweight, the smoke, drink and use drugs but expect the rest of us to "fix" their problems and pay their bills. That's not right and it's not the thinking that made America a once great nation. America didn't become a world leader with socialism!!!!! And Every socialist nation either failed or is in third world conditions. Do we really want to be like Cuba? I think not!

YOU ARE WRONG!!! Health care is a right, It is a necessity, not a luxury !!!

Socialist or not, governments have the moral and ethical obligation to do good and necessary things for the well being of the citizens and the nation !! Why have a government then????? You are just like a 3rd world country ! What a disgrace !

Socialized? Socialized? Maybe it's high time that YOU got socialized, instead of living in a fantasy land isolation bubble. The following countries have universal health care, while the U.S. does not (utterly shameful): Argentina, Austria, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Cuba, Costa Rica, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iraq, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Oman, Portugal, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Sweden, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Ukraine and the United Kingdom.

It's sad to read that otherwise intelligent human beings are fearful of "socialized medicine". There isn't a European country that would vote out socialized medicine if given the chance. Nor would we vote out "socialized policing", "socialized military"...... . Oh yes, and our socialized sanitation services save more lives than all of medicine. Maybe we should pay the garbage man more :)

So what you are saying is that those of us with money are more worthy to receive health care and life saving technology than those of us without money. Does that mean if I don't have the money to pay to have my life saved I should be left at the side of the road? At the end of the day that is what you are really saying. NO ONE in this country is more deserving of health care than any one else. No one's life is more valuable because they have the money to pay for care.

Mr T,
America is a socialist country and we Americans have voted for more Socialism each election. Republican George W added a Government run Prescription Drug Program recently. We Americans love socialism. Get over it. In fact, I am quite pleased with the medical care my mother gets from Medicare. Of course she is old and complains about something all the time.

Some Government owned/run entities: Highways, Roads, Streets, Military Defense, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Health and Human Services.

Government regulated entities: EPA, OSHA, FCC, FTC, SEC, and many more.

I am 36 years old and was born with Cystic Fibrosis (www.cff.org). Like the other 30,000 people in the US, I did not ask to be born with this disease but have come to learn to live with it. I also have another rare disease called Kartagener's Syndrome. I have a brother who is 35 with the same disease. Let me tell you how lousy and how great our system can be on two sides of the table:

I am a high school graduate who went on to earn a college degree. I am now working on my MBA. But don't be fooled. None of this was achieved easily by any means. As a child I as molested and became estranged from my family over the last 18 years. As a determined person I managed to stay active in my lifestyle and get passed what happened to me as a child by earning a degree and struggled through career changes. I was fortunate to have jobs that I was granted health care insurance. Until 7 years ago my health insurance was affordable on an income of just $25,000. That was good because my medications without health insurance would have cost me $10,000 a month...if I stayed healthy. Then after a boost to my career in finance and a larger pay for $45,000 a salary, my health insurance for the very same care suddenly became a financial burden. I had to stop contributing to my 401K and my savings account suddenly had a balance of $0 and I was now in debt to $18,000 of the skyrocketing costs for health insurance. In some cases I was seeing doctors who has no business treating me because they were not certified. I later found out that health insurance companies penialized doctor for writing referrals by charging them back an additional $400 each time. My health care slipped. I had to be hospitalized in order to get the proper care, which was against my better judgement but I had to if I wanted to get better. Because of the constant hospitalization for proper treatment that I use to do in my own time and not miss work, I lost a couple of jobs. After taking 6 1/2 years to complete my bachelors degree (3.35 GPA) on line which I had to delay so many times because I was sick, stressed or financially strapped. I could not qualify for scholarships or grants because I supposidly made too money and because I am white (not a minority...funny because with all the immigrants in NJ I feel like the minority). I now have a better paying job in NYC but still live in NJ making $67,000. It is taking me a while to pay off the $18,000 in medical debt and still find myself living pay check to pay check. I dont have much of a social life because stress weakened my health and work is a necessity so I can pay bills and have affordable health care. I finally got a good one but to live a little more at peace I have to maintain this pay and seek more. But at least my health is being properly cared for without a financial burden that is going to eventually skyrocket. I pray my pay raises can keep up or that I can find a job that can go up like health care has done in the last 6 or 7 years.

Now the other side of the story. My brother with Kartagener's Syndrome. Grew up with ADHD and was put on Ritalin which cast him as an outsider to other classmates. He was taunted on and made fun of. After the 9th grade he quite because it was too depressing. He came off the medication of Ritalin but then it was only a few years later he started having medical problems with his lungs. He constantly went to doctors but without health care due to his jobs not offering the insurance. He knew because he was not a high school graduate this was going to be a problem. He worked allot of jobs from landscaping to restaurant work. In the last 7 years his health has deteriorated. No one, not even the doctors knew what he had nor could diagnose him. I think they did not want to because he could not pay for the testings even when he was hospitalized. Nonetheless he decided to file for Social Security Disability because his health was making it difficult to breath and work. They wanted to know his reasoning. He said he was not sure what he had except that he was born with his organs reversed (unaware that I had been diagnosed a few years ago with Kartagener's Syndrome - all or most organs are reversed causing lung problems similar to Cystic Fibrosis). Social security aske him how he got like that? Ok, ask a stupid question, you're going to get a stupid answer. He said "I was born out of my mother's butt". So they requested that he see one of their doctors and see a shink. About this time my mother contacted me for the first time in 18 years. I found out that my brother was really sick and no one was helping. She knew growing up he and I were very much alike but no one knew what it was we had. Doctors were not as knowledgeable nor had the technoligy back in the 70s like they do today. I told her I was diagnosed with Kartageners Syndrome. To which my brother took with him when he went to the doctor. They then sent him to the shrink and told him (without looking at true x-rays) that he was only imagining this and it was all in his head. They denied his SS disability insurance. Now in walks me with my doctor who provides my brother with the location of the nearest Cystic Fibrosis clinic to see a proper doctor. This doctor his in the process of helping him and an attorney to file a lawsuit against Social Security for failing to send him to the proper doctors to treat him including all of the other doctors when they all had the same information available to them to see he was properly diagnosed.

See the treatment between two people. One with health insurance and the other without health insurance? In some ways it is allot alike and in other ways it is no different. As a person with Cystic Fibrosis/Kartageners syndrome and like the other 30,000 with CF and other people with diseases that are life threatening of debilitating deseases, we don't qualify for life insurance. We cant own our own businesses because we cannot get heallth insurance on our own. I don't smoke and may be luck to be one of the 10% of the people with CF to get a lung transplant. Those who smoke and blacken their lungs have a better chance of getting the transplant. They don't deserve a second change for destroying their lungs. I was born this way and have struggled to remain alive to live a long time. The statistics says I should have been dead before my teen years. I am not at the median age for CF (36 years old) and still going strong, or at least I feel like it.

But my brother on the other hand is struggling and so are millions of others. People who are healthy have no idea how easy they have it. If they are lucky they will never have to worry about finding out what it means to need health insurance to survive when your medication is $10,000 a month.

Health care insurance companies and pharmaceuticals should be NOT FOR PROFIT. No one should be profiting on saving someone's life with a drug or health service.

The author of this story needs to go to the hospital in a small town and see the quality of care, especially a small, poor town. My husband and I are not in the best of health and reserve a trip to the er as a last resort. The reasons: Because it will take at least an hour to get into a room, another hour for a doctor to come see you, tests will leave you there for an hour to three hours, and then another hour to get discharged. and that's if things go right.
The last time I took my husband into the er, he sat in a wheelchair in the hallway, while I stood behind him. We never made it to a room. The doctor came by, looked at him, wrote a script and told the nurse to discharge him. Yes it sounds like it was only a few minutes, it was four hours.

I'll be glad to share with the author some real horror stories from U.S. hospitals--especially emergency rooms--when patients were being charged big bucks for their health care. A private pay system bloated with administrative overhead and profits (what we have now) does not guarantee any better care than a government sponsored universal system. At least in the universal system, no one goes bankrupt from medical bills.

I grew up in Canada, moving to US when I married my husband and (unfortunately?) having my two children on US side of border which has pretty much put us in the poor house! Both times his, our insurance found reasons not to cover the pregnancies- 1st time since we had just got married and second time after a year of trying to get pregnant we finally got pregnant the month my husbands company cut off our health care coverage, therefore the new coverage we received considered the pregnancy a"preexsisting condition" ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? when is a baby a "condition"?? So we are still paying off both babies!! During the 2nd pregnancy I ended up in ER before I knew for sure I was pregnant fearing a miscarriage which I am still paying for that visit which I was stuck in ER for over 8 hours and MISDIAGNOSED(CAUSING US TO CONTEMPLATE TERMINATION OF MY NOW HEALTHY DAUGHTER!) I have never waited more then TWO hours in Canada in ER for anything!!
I can honestly say I have nothing but horrible experiences with health care here and negative things to say!
The US is one of the most advanced countries in the world- Being ranked so poorly in Healthcare and Education IS a government problem and CHANGE is needed!
Ps watch SICKO, while maybe partially biased for most part very truthful- as I see it only problem with Canada healthcare is lack of Doctors who all move to US for the money!! and taxes- we all pay taxes and we should to pay for the important things like better healthcare, education etc NOT to spend billions on foreign oil or WARS!

I have always kept fit and eaten right. Nevertheless, out of the blue, I had serious medical problems at a relatively young age. Fortunately, I made a good salary and had very good insurance so I could afford the treatment I needed. A working person at a lower income level could not possibly afford that insurance or the treatment I needed unless they decided to stop eating. Is that what America is about?

By the way, in the course of my long and expensive treatment, I also had a lot of treatment very similar to the horrors Ms. Bruton describes in Britain. Private treatment isn't necessarily good. It really depends on who's in charge.

I agree, but why are we now bailing out the whole banking system in the US, but wait we are not a socialist country right we should let the banks fail if we where a true capitalist market, are we just helping the very rich keep there money? We always say we aren't socialist when comes to helping the poor if it where the rich that needed help then spare no expense. what we need is a revolution for taxation without representation, God Save the king. {For Now}

I'm the health safety and systems manager for a neurological and specialist care unit in the UK. We are a limited Company and take patients from the NHS and Social services who require 24/7 care: MS, Neurological, Cancer etc.

Quite ironic then that I suffered a stroke about a month ago and was rushed into the local NHS hospital. I stayed there for a period of six days, during that time I have never been so ashamed of the treatment of patients (myself included) by so called health care professionals.

Iwon't go into details here because I am still awaiting a reply to my six page (times new roman 9 point on A4 paper) letter of complaint to the chief executive of the local NHS trust

U.K Doctors and Nurses (in my experience) are good at emergency and trauma work, however when it comes to caring for those who are forced to stay in hospital for periods of days if not weeks or months, they are sadly lacking in empathy, compassion, patience and humanity.

Yes the NHS is overworked and underfunded, however there seems to be this attitude on the wards that the patient is to blame. I for one had better things to do than spend a week on my back being ignored or treated as an inconvenience.

Personally it would be a dark day in hell before I would employ any of the Nurses or HCA's who supposedly looked after me during my incarceration.

I actually live in the UK and I can tell you for sure that the writer of this article has greatly exaggerated how bad the hospitals here are. I'm guessing that they are only slightly worse than the hospitals in the US.

However, you have to remember that although the healthcare is free, you can go to private hospitals if you want which are really nice, where you have your own room, TV, good food etc. You can see a doctor straight away, have a routine operation within a week of the diagnosis and get constant attention from a nurse if you wanted it. All this for the same price that Americans pay for the basic healthcare.

Most people tend to overlook the fact that we receive substandard care here in America. We are over drugged and overlooked as a society - repeatedly being put on antibiotics as a means of "care"? Where is the care in that? Doctors don't take their time with us and refuse any sort of alternative care suggestions we may offer. Our medical establishment is a joke in the states.

My husband is English and has never complained about any of the above. This article is a complete joke with an obvious bias towards conservative thinking.

I live in Canada. So why does the US have socialized education? If you have children, it should be your responsibility to pay for their education, not you neighbor's who may or may not have children. Opponents of public health care will pull out every horror story they can.

I'm sure that there are horror stories happening in US hospitals also. What about the homeless people being dropped off in their hospital gown in middle of nowhere bc the hospital couldn't be bothered with them. Or the lady in the waiting room who keeled over and died while everyone, including a security guard, just stood around like this was commonplace.

The only health care related "wait time" story that I know about first hand is a friend of mine who had to wait a few months for knee surgery after a sports injury. He wasn't bedridden or incapacitated by the injury. He wouldn't have to wait in the US bc when you cut a huge portion of the population out of the equation (those who are not covered & those whose insurance companies won't cover) OF COURSE you'll get what you want when you want. When it comes to what you need, I've found that you get it. When I was only 4 weeks pregnant and thought I was having a miscarriage, I called by doctor from work and asked her to set me up for an ultrasound ASAP. My life wasn't in danger. I was only spotting a bit. She called me back within 15 minutes and told me I was set up for that afternoon. That was one of 3 ultrasounds I received. Two of which were at my request and none of which I paid for out-of-pocket.

Another story - family friend collapsed while shopping. She was taken to the hospital and tested. Immediately diagnosed with leukemia and immediately started treatment. She needs a bone marrow transplant & when one is found, there's no question of whether it's "experimental" or not. It's just done.

Bottom line, my doctor's word is the only thing that counts in my treatment. The government does not approve or disapprove individual treatments like insurance companies do. The dr makes the diagnosis and prescribes the treatment or refers to a specialist. No red tape. No questions asked of any beaurocrat or insurance company. I don't put off going to the doctor for fear that I may lose my house as a result.

At the end of the day, education is a public service bc it's required for the public good. I feel the same way about health care. If you don't want to be bothered by some of the headaches of public health care, then have a 2 tiered system (ie - private health care in conjunction with public, just like schools).

I agreee. I have several relatives in a European county with "free" nationalized health care. Some of them, when needing life-threatening surgery, were told that they would need to wait to receive their surgeries. Rather than die agonizing deaths, they elected to have the surgeries done at private hospitals. They had to pay absolutely huge amounts of money for the procedures from their own pockets. Nice 'free' medical care, huh?

I case you did not know, every time a uninsured person go to the ER we pay for it.
The cost of heath care should be a public concern, and a concern or every person who lives in the USA. You are already paying for health care in the States at a much higher rate than 9%. Just keep that in mind when someone who does not have health insurance needs to see a doctor they go to the ER which in return cost us all more in health care. One would think that the government would want to take better care of the people who live in the states. With out us, we the people there would be no government.

I do not have a problem with a government sponsored healthcare program, provided it is distributed correctly. We have illegal aliens that are given healthcare at our expense and there are events everyday at facilities where doctors are forced to over-order expensive tests and treatments so as not to be sued by the "un-insured" masses who seem to dictate what America does on a daily basis. I read the article on the National Healthcare system and agree with some aspects, but have friends in Canada who were denied care for a treatable cancer because they were "too" old.  Of course if one is willing to pay, then you can have everything.  Again, the almighty dollar....if you have money you can buy everything. Obama wants to provide all American's with the kind of healthcare he has in Congress....what a joke, their plan is the Gold Cadillac of Health Insurance and covers plastic surgery!!  Perhaps Obama should encourage his cronies and others in Congress to begin to live like regular Joe the Plumber's.  Pay your income tax, pay into SS and when those that are working get a raise and you are retired, you get nothing........you are retired.  I wish I could work where Obama works and get the great healthcare, great pensions and automatic pay raises whether I perform or not. Socialized medicine is a good thing if done properly......but to penalize employers that cannot afford to provide health insurance to workers?  That is where I draw the line.  Destruction of the middle class and all we hold dear is at the bottom of Obama's slick speeches and promises.  Voters beware!!!

Low income who can't afford private health care Insurance, disabled and retiree are eligible for government funded health care.

To cut overhead health care cost, replace heath care providers employees and health care insurance employees with computer system: electronic medical records, electronic billing

The drawbacks millions will lose their jobs and in return Health care will be more efficient, cost effective and affordable.

Don´t any of you know about the country that you live in? We are already part of a socialist country and always have been. We have a mixed economy much like all the other European countries. Look up ´mixed economy´.

You all act as if taking an idea from Europeans suddenly makes us Un-American and we will no longer be free. Just ridiculous that you all can be easily persuaded by your favorite newscaster or political party.

All it takes is some person to come onto TV and claim to be an expert and suddenly you sheep start to follow. I have been to many European countries and it is not anything like they are trying to make it out to be. It is called political strategy. Come on people...do not be so easily led down the path.

Let us all not forget that our entire government was modeled around the Greeks and Romans. Look it up folks. We did not invent democracy and freedom. Taking an idea from European countries is nothing new.

And who said we would have to have an identical system anyway? Can we not design it for us?

The real reason you all cannot accept this is because you do not trust our politicians to do it right.

What do you say to the person who is working 2 part time jobs? That person can't get the same level of insurance as you, with the platinum level of coverage.

What do you say to the millions of people affected by the recession? Tough luck. Don't worry God loves you and will take you away to heaven if you're sick. Or maybe you've got a more sick mindset: Buck up! It's YOUR fault you were fired.

Instead of complaining about it why not CONTRIBUTE to the discussion?

Jane:

I wanted to say I am so very sorry for the loss of your son. You are in my thoughts.

I absolutely agree. This is a spoiled child who wants the health care system to stop, to take care of her problem. Mind you, had she gone to the doctor's when she should have, as she herself points out, she would have saved over $3800!
The British know they can and must improve their health care system. But let's not forget that it is indeed universal health care, and her treatment was accurate.
She is also comparing a system in effect many years ago versus a modern one.
Apples and oranges...

I defy her to compare true stories in the rest of Europe and Canada and contract the experience in the States. I am sure not everyone will agree with her spoiled rich kid conclusions.

Blatant scare tactics with no evidence.
Did you know that recent research into immediate care vs delayed care for cardiac patients has shown that the "wait and see" approach leads to higher rates of resolution? In other words, don't blame the doctor for a wait and see approach, it might be the right one!
I could list many other things wrong with your statements -- including the fact that you just insulted Mexican doctors -- but there's no denying that quality health care is available around the world to the masses who can pay for it. The difference is that there is little to no health care for those who can't pay for it in the US, whereas everyone else in industrialized, civilized countries do not throw their citizens to the wolves in order to make a profit.

It wouldn't have been better in Canada. I know because I nearly had a miscarriage there at the same stage. I went to the hospital and they said there was nothing they could do for me. I went home and waited to see.

I did have my baby there, but thanks to the incompetent care I received, I spent a month in pain and my son has learning disabilities. The single maternity ward nurse who was on during my labor was downright abusive so if you think you'd get a "dearie" you are sadly mistaken. My daughter's birth caused an infection at that same Canadian hospital and they put me on the wrong antibiotic as I learned when I did later research. As the adage goes, I got what I paid for.

I'm not saying the US shouldn't reform health care, but I think people in the States are suffering from a SERIOUS case of "the grass is always greener..."

You're right Heather K. I know that socializing healthcare will not solve all our problems. And of course there will still be cases of mis-care and abuses within the health industry... However, something has to be done. I could have lived with the care I received if my bill had not have been so high. Although I did not birth a son with defects... so it's hard for me to sit in your shoes and feel the pain you must have endured and endure today.
Still... We can not just pretend like everything in the U.S. is ok.. especially while we watch our govt bail out big business as they allow average citizens to drown.

Oh please move to Canada and be a burden on their health system. Why does it seem that the American people today feel entitled to have the government take care of them? take some personal responsibility and do for yourself instead of waiting for the government to step in. I agree with L.Gregg, is it any where in the Constituation that says our government (ie me) should pay for everyone's health care? Oh yeah that silly little document we no longer reference for all the governments programs. I challenge anyone of you to name 1, just 1, government programt that is successful.

Sure let me name a few for you...

Anti-discrimination bills, laws and govt funded organizations that have given woman and minorities the right to vote and make comparative wages.
Civilian Conversation Corps.
Park service and Interior Dept.
The GI Bill
The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children
OSHA
NASA
The Military

Sure you can find faults in all of these govt funded and run organizations however they have benefited EVERY American not just a few corporate big wigs living on top of the bubble that the health insurance companies pay off every day.

Heather,

You are correct, but at the same time we have to acknowledge that the U.S. Government is not the best manager with some programs. Take for example, the medical program (TRICARE) for our servicemembers and their families. According to a June 2008 report to the Secretary of Defense by the Department of Defense Task Force on the Future of Military Health Care, a independent federal advisory committee, TRICARE Management Activity, which oversees the TRICARE Program can't account for the 40 billion dollars that passes through its hands. Furthermore, the General Accountability Office (GAO) notes that TRICARE takes in more in premiums than it pays out in medical care and yet it wants to raise premium costs for retirees and survivors.

Healthcare in this country needs to be fixed, but from what I have seen asking the federal government to manage it would be a mistake.

Tricare isn't managed directly by the federal government. Its basically a private company who's been contacted to manage the health care system of the military / VA. It sucks right now cause these guys are doing everything possible to gouge vets benefits. Their even trying to find a way to charge SERVICE MEMBERS for "non essential" care (and of course using loose reference to the word essential). The military has always had a time honored system of "we will take care of you and your families", which is starting to erode away. Need I mention people leaving out of Walter Reed Medical Center and then suddenly finding themselves with $10,000 hospital bills for their operations / reconstruction / physical therapy. Most of the time these bills are waived off by the local congressmen (hurting service members is BAD politics).

Sorry Jim I side with "theotherguy1234", He's right it is another private company run by big business that in the end is really only trying to make a profit. I agree that the current government is inadequate to run such a large health program for their citizens. That's why it's time we put some people in there who care about fiscal responsibility and the American People.

Instead of consulting politicians and insurance companies... we should be consulting Doctors, Scientists, Patients and scholars who have committed their lives to researching the very issues we are discussing today. I would love to hear what those who have no financial interest on this issue really have to say. I think you may find that they agree with most of the posters on this board... we need a different system.

My recent experience was similar.. I was suffering chest discomfort at work, and, while I was wanting to cross the street to the medical center, my employer decided that an ambulance was necessary. ($1000 + $20 per mile for a 14 mile trip). I spent 4 hours on a gurney before being seen, then saw a doctor for 6 or 7 minutes who diagnosed low blood sugar, ordered a glucose IV and signed a release. Total cost (including a 30% discount for being uninsured) $12,800.

Christy from NC: Are you able to pay for your own health insurance? What if you had health problems after being laid off from your job in this continuing recession? What would you say then?

I can guarantee that after 5 months of looking for a job you will be begging for welfare.

Disease knows no boundaries therefore it is a government function. We live in a global community were disease travels so yes it is a government function and its is the responsibility of every government in this world to deliver health-care to their citizens...

I totally respect your opinion L. Gregg BUT, do you really think that someone chooses to get cancer or that they somehow give their children asthma on purpose? You are extremely lucky to have never had any health issues that you had to pay extreme amounts of money for. Re post after you've gotten into an accident and your insurance company refuses to pay for the ambulance because you could have called a cab instead. Or the company you are working for decides that they can not afford to offer their employees healthcare so they force you to purchase it on your own. Or after years and years of self vigilance at keeping yourself healthy you find that you have Testicular cancer like Armstrong (who was very healthy). You may then discover that you can not afford the same type of treatment that he could and therfore may not have the same chances of recovery that he had. I am not a communist... I just believe that everyone is entitled to good healthcare, public schools and a society that doesn't turn away from the sick because they are afraid to look at them.

This is an amazingly myopic and biased reply.
Which part of the military -- the ultimate in socialized systems -- do you think the US does poorly? How about Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid?
Where does your distrust of governmental institutions come from? Why do you think private firms are always better? Where would your savings be right now if not backed by the government? Care to trade in your Lehman Bros. shares? Care to look at what the world's financial situation would look like if the gov't didn't bail out the system?
It is ABSOLUTELY the role of government to protect its citizens, from ALL sources, domestic and foreign. Disease is one of those sources.
Yes, there are variations on a theme to implement the care, but the Health Care systems in Europe and Canada offer good care universally, and great care to those who can afford it. The US offers only good care to those who can afford it, and regularly bankrupts people looking for even simple care.
The WHO rated France as having the best health care in the world, the US spends more, and gets less -- it was ranked 17th!!

But your politicians practice socialist banking & finance - to the benefit of the rich on Wall Street and the detriment of the ordinary American citizen. Ironic, isn't it?

Canada's not a communist country.... Sorry you don't know anything about your neighbors to the north

Health care should be a Government function (to the extent of basic health care being offered). Private insurance companies are NOT RESPONSIBLE, their ONLY goal is profit. Profit from them is providing less benefits then the money you pay them. If you pay them $10,000, and they pay for $20,000 in benefits, then they LOOSE money, meaning no profits, meaning policy's have to be changed. So in actuality, you pay them $10,000, and they provide $6,000 in benefits, thus they make a profit..... except in the rare care of some extremely expensive conditions ($100,000).

When I was in the service, health care was great. It focused more on prevention then actual care (its been proven that prevention is cheaper then fixing things later). If I ever had a problem just go visit the local clinic and they'd let me know whats up. Now that I'm a civilian its scary. And while I'm young, fit, and with no medical conditions, I have to pay money into a system, that will only RAISE my premiums as I get older, and will eventually terminate my care if I become a burden to the company itself.

In the end, Government needs to provide a basic national health system, screw the insurance companies making BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of dollars in profit (from people being sick). And if someone wants a nice health care plan, then they can pay the extra money it costs.

Protection of the American Public from dangers at home and abroad is a government RESPONSIBILITY. What dangers are they? We can only dream of the dangers facing our fellow Americans. Here are just a few:

Methicillin Resistant Staphyllococcus aureus, Influenza, Food-borne Illnesses (Salmonella, Campylobacteriosis), Malaria, Appropriate drinking water and sanitation (parasites, plague, etc.), West Nile Virus, Eastern Equine Encephalitis, Babesiosis, Hantavirus, Human Immunodeficiency Virus, Ebola, Marburg, not to mention the ones we regularly think of: terrorism, etc.

You had some pretty horrible UK teammates then, most people that I know get their teeth checked regularly, the NHS may not provide brilliant dental care, but a full checkup and clean only costs about £15. Only total rotters would wait until they had problems before going to the dentist!

Jackie, I had a medical emergency in Canada. It has been a relatively good experience (medically speaking). I crashed my bicycle go way too fast for where I was going. Anyways, I give kudos to North Bay Emergency Room (Ontario). I did wait a few minutes on a stretcher to rest. I think I may have fallen asleep (or fainted) so I don't know how long. A doctor cleaned me up, bandages, tentanus shot and gave me wound care instructions to me and my dad. No problem! There was a billing problem with BC/BS but that was cleared up.

Overuse of medical care is just like gluttony. You wonder why we have antibiotic resistant bacteria and so many allergies and all sorts of weird stuff creeping up on us. It may be because we go to the ER for every little problem because we can't wait for a doctor's appointment. We want it NOW! LOL.

I suppose if we were given itemized bills for everything that happens during a medical type of appointment/visit, maybe we'll be more careful.

I have lived in the UK many years ago and heard nothing but horror stories about the NHS (National Health System). I'm sure that there are very good hospitals, doctors and nurses who are wonderful and caring but the usual problems through lack of funding cause understaffing and not so pleasant conditions in the public system. Not a blueprint for America to follow.
Then I lived in the US for many years (prior to HMOs who were just coming on the scene). Then system and care were wonderful. No referrals required for specialist appointments or treatment. Stating the obvious that I think one is intelligent enough to figure which part of their body needs medical attention, thus eleminating double dipping by first going to a GP and then a specialist. This also requires only one appointment and less time off work which is a problem.
I now live in Australia, and Australia is not a socialist country either! But as the above writer has explained very well, we have both Medicare with taxes paid from your salary which also does not cover dental or optical. Australia also has the choice of Private Health Insurance, which although not inexpensive, it is no where near what you pay in the US and allows you to choose a private hospital and the doctor of your choice. I suggest that the Australian system be looked at in DETAIL and forget the UK model.

You hit the nail right on the head Michael about us Americans not being treated by doctors but by insurance companies instead! Truer word have never been spoken!!!

yes everyone needs to be paying taxes for a national healthcare systems and for sure so the immigration problem needs to be dealt with so that we can tax them. I came to the US legally and I pay taxes as a permanent resident alien but I do not get to vote.. and they also need to bring down the costs of getting a medical degree ( my daugher is trying to get into med school now) but the standard of living of doctors in the UK and Canada are not like the ones in the US. How many cars and houses does a doctor really need to have???? (they are never at home anyway to enjoy the one they do have) It's greed again. Not so much now with the younger doctors because they are struggling with their practices, but in the past doctors were making out like bandits..

Actually, Pippi, a large percentage of illegal immigrants DO pay taxes into the system. They are working with falsified SS #s, having taxes held out which they will never be able to reclaim on a tax return, because if they try to file taxes, they will be exposed... So despite all the publicity, that really isn't a major part of the problem. However, having the government use our taxes to bail out the mortgage industry & the banking industry & the pension funds for large companies and pay for a war that was started under false pretenses and... well, you get the idea. Why can't we use some of that tax money to pay for basic health care coverage for everyone & better education...? I'd certainly prefer my tax money went to helping someone get control of their weight & diabetes BEFORE it becomes a major problem than going to bail out an industry that refuses to comply with their own rules & some ethical standards... just a thought.

How about if we just kept more of our money and not pay such high taxes, then we could afford insurance. We need to let insurance companies compete for our business, that would drive the costs down. Also, illegals don't pay very much as far as taxes go, but they do use up the free medical care at the emergency room.

My girlfriend survived advanced stage of breast caner in Canada. Unfortunately, the primary care doctor ( imported doctor from Russia) could not even make a simple diagnosis. She had a leaking nipple..come on. this is not normal unless your lactating .If I would have known about this sooner (found out two years later) is would have told her to seek a second option.. and then the radiologists there could not read the x-ray and make the right diagnosis either, still she survived her chemo and radiation treatments and is in remission from this disease because she got extra chemo treatments and Nupregen that she would have not gotten in the US and is doing great.

I have had mis-diagnosis's in the US as well. As a patient, always question the diagnosis and read up on it and educate yourself so that you can take a pro-active approach to your care in both systems